Site Design 101

motlive · #1 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 09:34

Hi All,

Ive been into web design for some time, but am pretty shocking.

The question that has been bothering me recently is:

Should it matter what the code looks like, as long as it works?

I try to make my code as minimalistic as possible, but it always seems to go wrong and I never manage to complete a website.

karinne · #2 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 11:47

What do you mean what the code looks like?

If you code it right, it will work in ALL browsers but if you do stuff like (that we've seen just recently on the forum)

Code: Select all

<ul><span></span>
  <li>...</li>
  <li>...</li>
  <li>...</li>
</ul>

Then ... it works in some browsers, but not all AND it's not semantic!

Integrated Web Design: The Meaning of Semantics (Take I)

motlive · #3 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 11:59

More like using tables for layout, or should divs be used from now on?

like the code for this site, it has the <styles> outside of the head in some places, but that seems messy to me..

is it just me being to uptight or should I just do whatever i want as long as it works?

karinne · #4 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by motlive

More like using tables for layout, or should divs be used from now on?

You shuold always be coding your layout with CSS and DIV. Tables were never meant to be used to gel your layout together, they were meant for tabular data. See the link in my sig, it's also a sticky in some of the forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motlive

like the code for this site, it has the <styles> outside of the head in some places, but that seems messy to me..

That's probably just because of the implication of a forum ... it's complicated stuff. I know the next version will be more semantic and valid tho

Our admins are working on that.

The <style> element should belong in the <head> of the document and nowhere else

14.2.3 Header style information: the STYLE element

Quote:

The STYLE element allows authors to put style sheet rules in the head of the document. HTML permits any number of STYLE elements in the HEAD section of a document.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motlive

is it just me being to uptight or should I just do whatever i want as long as it works?

Please .... be uptight!

Start coding your pages the right way form the beginning and you can do wonderful thing. For example, if you code your page (the HTML) properly, then you can later on just change the CSS to give it a nice refresh. The CSS ZenGarden is a great example of that. Every style uses the exact same HTML, only a different stylesheet is loaded.

motlive · #5 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 12:15

CSS Zen is pretty nice, i like that.

I am also of the mind that you shouldnt steal peoples code, but something like css zen seems like a good place to start and recycle the code, as if you try to emulate it you should come up with pretty much the same code.

karinne · #6 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 12:28

Yes stealing code is bad but, stealing designs is worse.

I doubt you'll get flogged for stealing "code". I mean ... you'll notice on thousands of sites people use <div id="wrapper"> or <div id="containter> ... same thing for the header ... you'll see a bunch of <div id="header"> or <div id="masthead">. So ... it's very hard to be "original" in the code.

It's more the design you have to be careful about.

carib · #7 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 22:19

Hay Karinne,

Quote:

"Yes stealing code is bad but, stealing designs is worse"

I couldn't agree with you more especially when it comes to stealing others designs.

I know when it comes to the coding, unless one creates a totally new and unigue code of their own, it's virtually impossible to avoid coding similarities.

However, the likely hood of design similarities are few and very very very far between if at all but, with the millions of sites on the Internet it'll be hard to protect your design from those who'd be incliend to steal it even with all available preventive measures in place.

Perhaps in the future we'll have websites code & designs that will self distruct during any attempts at modifying for reuse.

motlive · #8 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 22:25

Would never steal someones design, is dirty and wrong, and some kind of electric killer monkey should be sent to peoples PC's who steal the designs of others.

Code is too similar these days, especially with the way CSS works and the hacks to get things to function.

Ryan Fait · #9 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 22:54

Quote:

That's probably just because of the implication of a forum ... it's complicated stuff. I know the next version will be more semantic and valid tho Our admins are working on that.

Oh you have no idea. If we ever finish it, it's going to be the most beautiful thing you'll ever see.

sannbe · #10 (**permalink**) Apr 26th, 2007, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Fait

Oh you have no idea. If we ever finish it, it's going to be the most beautiful thing you'll ever see.

We want it NOW, Ryan!!!! Just Tell J and R to get off their tushes and get to work. You can't do everything.

Ryan Fait · #11 (**permalink**) Apr 27th, 2007, 02:45

I was actually working on it today. Been a while since I touched the code. It's a pain getting it to work in IE. Rob and I are extremely far from being done, so don't expect it in the next few months.

karinne · #12 (**permalink**) Apr 27th, 2007, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Fait

Oh you have no idea. If we ever finish it, it's going to be the most beautiful thing you'll ever see.

Actually ... Rob told me (and showed me

) a "tiny" bit about it!

JacobHaug · #13 (**permalink**) Apr 28th, 2007, 05:51

hahaha...yeah last time I looked the completion date was scheduled for 2085...hopefully standards won't change at all till then...hehe

Ryan Fait · #14 (**permalink**) Apr 28th, 2007, 09:14

I started working on it again at least! Recoded some of it today. I'm so annoyed that I have use so many <div>'s to get it to look right. And IE 5.5 SUCKS with absolute positioning inside a positioned <div>. I never knew that before I started working on this project.

JacobHaug · #15 (**permalink**) Apr 28th, 2007, 17:48

Yeah, well no worries just code it for Safari and Firefox. If they aren't using that they don't need to be on this private web forum...hehe

Ryan Fait · #16 (**permalink**) Apr 28th, 2007, 18:11

Lol, touché.

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Site Design 101