We seem to have cracked it - Website Design nows ranks highly! - How did we do it?

webcreationuk · #1 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:55

Hi All,

Its been a long road but we have bee able to gain top natural rankings in Google Uk / Yahoo UK and MSN UK under the very well sort after phase - ' website design '

Many people ask me how did you acheive this and the answer is simple - do not cheat!

SEO is never a 30 minute exercise and like constructing a building, one must ensure that the foundations are solid and that the building is created in such a way that people find it easy to access and find rooms.

We still have a londgroad ahead of us and as you will notice our one aim is to become the most recognized website design compony within the UK search engines and so far we seem to be just doing that.

If anyone has any advice I am all ears because we are all still learning

Thanks,

David Webb

welshstew · #2 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 12:04

That's very impressive - number 3 is google, you must have a great backlink strategy.

My advice would be to add a valid doctype and stopped using tables for layout. You may find yourself jumping to the top of that list...

alexgeek · #3 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 15:11

With code like this:

HTML: Select all

<link rel="icon" type="image/x-icon" href="favicon.ico" />
<link rel="shortcut icon" type="image/x-icon" href="favicon.ico" />
<html>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
.style19 {color: #C8CDB2}
-->
</style>
<script src="Scripts/AC_RunActiveContent.js" type="text/javascript"></script>

<head>

I'm quite suprised!
I'd simplify your code and put it in the right order to make it easier for the spiders.
A h1 tag may improve results and you shouldn't link to "/index.htm" just link to "/" for the homepage as you may get penalized for duplicate content.
1020 backlinks? Care to share where you got all these from?

Aso · #4 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 16:10

Woah! Tell us, was that all 'white hat'...?

Definitely link to / rather than index.htm. If anything, it makes neater urls

That code is rather 'surprising' - any reason or just a mistake?

MikeHopley · #5 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 16:50

As I've suggested before, Google barely cares about "clean" code. You don't get "Google points" for neat HTML.

...and congratulations on your ranking!

alexgeek · #6 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHopley

As I've suggested before, Google barely cares about "clean" code. You don't get "Google points" for neat HTML.

...and congratulations on your ranking!

Either way I still wouldn't have <link> tags anywhere but the head.

MikeHopley · #7 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 18:00

I agree: invalid code is sloppy and can lead to browser errors.

You know how much I believe in validating one's code.

It's a little sad that such a highly ranked web design site uses woefully invalid HTML.

Oh well. Business only cares for standards when it's profitable.

Jack Franklin · #8 (**permalink**) Jan 22nd, 2008, 18:33

I know Google does not care about code, but it is sad to see your company using rollovers on that menu and very bad code

spinal007 · #9 (**permalink**) Jan 23rd, 2008, 11:37

Well, it's not really that amazing... They rank highly because they put this:
Website Design by WebCreation UK
...on the footer of every one of their clients' websites.

The website itself has little to no SEO what-so-ever so you don't really have your basis covered. Should Google decide to take a closer look into your high number of incoming links, things may change. Specially because none of them are what's considered to be "genuine" links...

alexgeek · #10 (**permalink**) Jan 23rd, 2008, 14:59

Is that classed as blackhat Diego?

spinal007 · #11 (**permalink**) Jan 23rd, 2008, 15:55

It surely is unethical to place the link without the owner's understanding and approval, but I personally don't think there are enough links yet for it to be flagged up as a Google bomb - because, essentially, that's what it is, on a very small scale.

Also, SEs have evolved and understand that you can't control who links to you so you're unlikely to ever be penalized as a result of incoming links from external website. What can happen however, is that the SEs may choose to disregard these links for not being 'genuine', which would make them wortheless.

If those links ever loose their value, it's unlikely the site will hold its position as it stands...

kaista82 · #12 (**permalink**) Jan 26th, 2008, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinal007

Well, it's not really that amazing... They rank highly because they put this:
Website Design by WebCreation UK
...on the footer of every one of their clients' websites.

The website itself has little to no SEO what-so-ever so you don't really have your basis covered. Should Google decide to take a closer look into your high number of incoming links, things may change. Specially because none of them are what's considered to be "genuine" links...

I run http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk, and I'm currently trying to get it higher in google, if I make sure (which I have) that all my google/search engine related efforts are white-hat yet I still (be silly not to) add a similar link (website design by foo solutions) would I also potentially have the same issue in the future or is it that the fact that I have put in the time on the site aswell keep google from kicking me in the nuts?

spinal007 · #13 (**permalink**) Jan 27th, 2008, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaista82

I run http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk, and I'm currently trying to get it higher in google, if I make sure (which I have) that all my google/search engine related efforts are white-hat yet I still (be silly not to) add a similar link (website design by foo solutions) would I also potentially have the same issue in the future or is it that the fact that I have put in the time on the site aswell keep google from kicking me in the nuts?

Well.............................
...you've got the right idea, but I'm sorry to say that there are some major flaws in your on-site SEO.

I had a brief look, and I noticed the following...
- all titles start with 'Foo Solutions'. that puts too much emphasis on your company name when you should in fact be targeting the words your audience will search for ('web design', etc).

- you have no heading structure throughout the website, and your headings are not SEO'd. For example, this page uses 'from £10 hosting' in two H1 tags. a) there should only be one H1 tag per-page, b) 'from £10 hosting' is not a key-phrase

- your homepage links point to http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk/Default.aspx which is not the same as http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk/ so you're wasting PR.

...and that's only the beginning. I think you will have some trouble competing with these guys. Perhaps start a thread and ask for a full review...

webcreationuk · #14 (**permalink**) Jan 27th, 2008, 19:25

Hi All,

Thank you very much indeed for all your feedback and as such we shall ensure that the code is corrected and that the H1 and other Tags are better represented.

As for having - website design by WebCreationUK on all our customer websites, this is because it is part of our terms and conditions where every customer are made aware at the outset.

We have been doing well but we also understand that the road can easily take a turn for the worst and as such I am grateful for all your feedback and will monitor things closely.

Oh - and as for Google Bombs and Black Hat Techniques, well that’s certainly not us but I wish I could say the same for other web companies that we are well aware off.

Thanks again,

David Webb

kaista82 · #15 (**permalink**) Jan 27th, 2008, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinal007

Well.............................
...you've got the right idea, but I'm sorry to say that there are some major flaws in your on-site SEO.

I had a brief look, and I noticed the following...
- all titles start with 'Foo Solutions'. that puts too much emphasis on your company name when you should in fact be targeting the words your audience will search for ('web design', etc).

- you have no heading structure throughout the website, and your headings are not SEO'd. For example, this page uses 'from £10 hosting' in two H1 tags. a) there should only be one H1 tag per-page, b) 'from £10 hosting' is not a key-phrase

- your homepage links point to http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk/Default.aspx which is not the same as http://www.foo-solutions.co.uk/ so you're wasting PR.

...and that's only the beginning. I think you will have some trouble competing with these guys. Perhaps start a thread and ask for a full review...

Thanks for your advice, ill definately look into those issues.

claireo · #16 (**permalink**) Feb 4th, 2008, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinal007

Well, it's not really that amazing... They rank highly because they put this:
Website Design by WebCreation UK
...on the footer of every one of their clients' websites.

The website itself has little to no SEO what-so-ever so you don't really have your basis covered. Should Google decide to take a closer look into your high number of incoming links, things may change. Specially because none of them are what's considered to be "genuine" links...

Agreed, although backwards links are very important, search engine optimisation within the content and code is just as important. I myself am a web designer, and my site has 557 inlinks and cannot seem to find which page i am on for web design! at all, iI too have the links web design and search engine optimisation by Creare. It proves to be trial and error, but theres no stability in it.

One thing i would recommend is definatly to clean up your page. Instead of having all your styles in the page, use an external style sheet. This means you can link all pages to it, so when you change the style, it will change it on every page. Also use a separate page to import Javascript for flash etc.
These will both help with the content, and the search engines will read the important information then rather than styles etc.

Take a look at the code on this site. You will see that all styles and javascript has been removed and links are added.

imageworks · #17 (**permalink**) Feb 5th, 2008, 03:07

I don't get why some of you think it is wrong to place links on his clients pages. First of all you assume he did not ask permission, when it probably is in his contract...as it is mine.

To me, this is about as legitimate of a link that can exist. A sample of your work, with a designation using smart anchor text. I even add more to mine...like “web site design and marketing by..."

Maybe I’m missing something, but I applaud any effort that is legitimately trying to get rankings for a service they actually offer, and isn't truly "blackhat". That’s the point of SEO anyways.

Scott C. Margenau

Lchad · #18 (**permalink**) Feb 5th, 2008, 11:17

I agree, I see nothing wrong with placing your link at the bottom of a client's website to indicate who constructed it. It is no different than a copyright for a photographer with their link to their site. If text were courtesy of another blog, you would give credit where credit is due and not get penalized.

I have this on upwards off 80+ sites and I am at the top or near the top of google in all my keyword phrase searches. I have done this since the beginning of time and have not be penalized.

I believe this is another fairytale that has taken on a life of it's own. I have seen NO proof that that is harmful in anyway.

spinal007 · #19 (**permalink**) Feb 6th, 2008, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by imageworks

I don't get why some of you think it is wrong to place links on his clients pages. First of all you assume he did not ask permission, when it probably is in his contract...as it is mine.

To me, this is about as legitimate of a link that can exist. A sample of your work, with a designation using smart anchor text. I even add more to mine...like “web site design and marketing by..."

Maybe I’m missing something, but I applaud any effort that is legitimately trying to get rankings for a service they actually offer, and isn't truly "blackhat". That’s the point of SEO anyways.

Scott C. Margenau

Agree. But...

1. I did not assume they cllients were unaware, but, I have worked with many people who were completely unaware of the links to their old service providers all over their website. It is fine if, as you say, the client is aware and agree to the link.

2. When I challenged how "genuine" the links are, I mean in terms of SEO. Sure it's a genuine link in human terms - it's a sample of your work - but SEs measure how 'genuine' by analysing how relevant the link is to the site and how your content relates to the linking page, and where the link is within the page, and which pages it's on, etc...

Believe it or not, a single link within a paragraph of a content-rich well ranked page is sometimes worth more than an out-of-context site-wide link from thousands irrelevant pages.

That ^^^ was my point.

I didn't say the links were harmful, in fact, what I said was:

Quote:

SEs have evolved and understand that you can't control who links to you so you're unlikely to ever be penalized as a result of incoming links from external website.

Then I did say...

Quote:

What can happen however, is that the SEs may choose to disregard these links for not being 'genuine', which would make them wortheless.

...which relates to this thread because...

Quote:

If those links ever loose their value, it's unlikely the site will hold its position as it stands...

Please don't get caught up on the morality of the links (that wa sjust a passing comment). The point is, in terms of SEO, those links are not reliable.

Now, IMHO, in terms of professional SEO, those links are unprofessional. But before you throw me in the closet, let me explain!!!
I'm not saying it's unprofessional to place links on your clients' websites - that's cool. But it is unprofessional and not SEO-like to rely on the ownership of other websites to gain high rankings.

Let me re-iterate: I think it is unprofessional for an SEO to need or depend on incoming links from websites they own or manage in order rank for a certain phrase.

Ooohhh... have I opened a can of worms???

Lchad · #20 (**permalink**) Feb 6th, 2008, 11:15

That makes perfect sense Diego!

Quote:

Let me re-iterate: I think it is unprofessional for an SEO to need or depend on incoming links from websites they own or manage in order rank for a certain phrase.

I completely agree here.
I don't put links at the bottom of sites to benefit SEO wise. It's advertising for me! My clients agree to it, so it's all good.

I did misread your post. I thought you had said it was bad and google would penalize. Now I understand... No closet for you!

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We seem to have cracked it - Website Design nows ranks highly! - How did we do it?