Frames: an outdated stigma?

[Pherdnut]

I think I grok why a lot of designers have been turned off by frames from back in the day, but why do so few sites take advantage of them for at least anchoring a navigation bar. I was taught in an html class that they cause search engines to skip over your stuff, but my javascript prof says you can use the <noframes> tag to dump all your content on the frame page. Is this a good fix for the problem? Cuz I love me some frames for a lot of practical reasons.

[moojoo]

No need to use frames, if you want the frame effect just use css and a include such as a PHP include. Frames are worthless, outdated, annoying, break navigation etc..

[BGarner]

Agreed,

A couple floats and some positioning in you css is all you need.

[daygon]

Let me put this in old man terms being thats prolly what your javascript teachers is.

FRAMES BAD = Not Compatable with todays internet
CSS GOOD = More compatable with the intrnet on many browsers and easy to update

[trandrus]

Frames aren't completely worthless.

For example, vertical page centering is still impossible in CSS but extremely simple using a frameset.

Don't get me wrong, I'm notorious at work for destroying anything built using nested tables and restructuring it using CSS completely. CSS is very useful and extensible, and you should embrace it whenever possible.

But as a designer, you should be aware of all your materials, including less valueable ones like frames. You never know when you might need it.

[daygon]

Originally Posted by trandrus

Frames aren't completely worthless.

For example, vertical page centering is still impossible in CSS but extremely simple using a frameset.

Don't get me wrong, I'm notorious at work for destroying anything built using nested tables and restructuring it using CSS completely. CSS is very useful and extensible, and you should embrace it whenever possible.

But as a designer, you should be aware of all your materials, including less valueable ones like frames. You never know when you might need it.

True but like i said some browser dont accept frames so your layout really messes up but i do agree as a designer you have to look at all your options.
If you keep an open mind more things will come to you to help fix a malfunctioning situation.

[moojoo]

Vertical centering with CSS is easy and by no means impossible.

The Proof:

http://www.newguyinennis.com/samples...centering.html

Took me 30 seconds to code and works in IE 6, 7, and FF 2.0 and Safari so far. View the source for the CSS. And yup the CSS and the XHTML Strict all validate. Yum! Way easier than using a frame set and much less markup.

Originally Posted by trandrus

For example, vertical page centering is still impossible in CSS but extremely simple using a frameset.

[PixelLuv]

frames are also a pain for screen readers.

i think they are depreciating also. am i right on that?

[craig]

well done.. moojoo, its always nice to show real examples of this...

[Pherdnut]

So what browsers have issues with frames? Also I don't know php yet, so I can't compensate that way. My big thing is anchored nav bars that don't go off screen when you scroll down through content.

[trandrus]

Cool!

I've been searching for that for a while.

Thanks.

[moojoo]

trandus glad it helped ya.

[mreine]

The absolute 50/50 works, but another way without setting anything to an absolute position is to set body tag with text-align center and margin auto then have a surround div set to margin: auto and text align left to counteract the center. This way you avoid the issue of absolute positioning.

[moojoo]

Got an example with your method? At first glance it just looks like you are horizontally centering.

[mreine]

I am... misread the centering question, I see you guys were discussing vertical... sorry!

[Ryan Fait]

Your professor needs to realize that few things have evolved as fast as the internet. The separation of the structural, presentation and behavioral layers are the best practices now for accessibility and SEO.

[moojoo]

Oh yeah, CSS is such a wonderful thing. I remember holding off on going that route and when I finally put Dreamweaver in the trash and started learning CSS, XHTML Strict and hand coding everything.. Whew what a difference.

[Ryan Fait]

From your point of view, you need to understand: the people that have voiced their opinions, apart from yours, have experienced both sides of the fence. We've concluded that the XHTML and CSS side is greener, but you're only on one side of the fence. When you are capable in XHTML and CSS, I'd be flabbergasted to hear you say that we're wrong.