apexweb.ueuo.com

It was in line with the description of your design services.

Jeez mreine.

That hurt my feelings...

I'd like to call for a moderator because this is not on.

I started web-design when I was 16, just after I got my first computer. My first website was made in words and it had frames. I thought it was amazing how the content would change but the menu would stay there....

Now I'm I'm a self-taught programmer with a kick-ass content management system to control:
- articles, products, jobs, ads, events, downloads, image galleries and standard pages.
My system is fully integrated with the latest Google technologies. Have you heard of Google Maps? Google Sitemaps? What about Google Base, which was only launched last week? Well some self entitled great web-designers don't have a clue what these are but my little system is fully integrated with all these.

I'm not showing off, the point I'm trying to make is: I had to start somewhere, now I'd say I'm a confident and experienced programmer and web-designer. I wouldn't have the confidence I have on my work now if I hadn't started with crappy little websites. I had to learn it all on my own.

You think is wrong that a company is giving a 14 year old a chance??? I was 17 when I started with Pines and Needles. The first 2 websites were a disaster. Had I not been given the chance to pursue my interestes that early I would not be where I am now. The exposure to the industry, specially at that early age will give him loads of advantage when he enters this highly competitive market in a fews years.

This kid has a lot of potential. I say in 6 years he'll be earning twice as much as you if that's your approach to newcomers. You have to realize, we were all really **** at this when we started, then we learned. This kid is in a better place to learn now because standards have moved on, technologies are well documented and there are forums like this with experienced web-developers willing to share their time and knowledge in order to help them improve.

Your comments didn't help anyone. If anything, you've come across as an arrogant nerd who is either scared or too full of himself to see raw talent that in 6 years may be well ahead of anything you'll ever achieve.

Sorry to say it mreine... you were out of line there!!

This is rather over the top. I started programming at age 7... some call me a natural but guaranteed for sure I was **** when I started out... but not for long..... 25 years of programming later..
Mreine, may I please ask that you try to be a little more encouraging... age is not a factor... the results of any new beginner would be similar and I put it to you that had this guy been 20, you would have reacted a little differently.In contrast to my comments above, I have to agree with this point to a degree. Apex, there is no harm in playing around with websites and development and even making a bit of money on the side, but you have a way to go in order to cope with the complexities of a business. Skills such as customer service, pricing analysis, management, people skills, tact (some of us older folk lack this too ), professionalism and lets not forget standards driven results with a focus on the customer needs. All of these skills nessesary for a design business cannot possibly be in your repotage at your age.
Keep it up, but take a step back... otherwise you'll burn out before your 16.... take the seriousness away from it... enjoy and learn.Mreine, companies who hire developers in india are also taking advantage.... and let me tell you that lots of them are no older than 14 and thats a definite fact. I think the point you make here therefore is irrelevant. At 14 for instance, I was programming in Cobol, C and Pascal and not shabbily either. Apex, people pay for results.... I'm just a little concerned IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE that you may not be able to deliver in a timely manner what your clients are expecting. We dont mind helping you, but from such an early starting point in your development dont be suprised if we just point you to good books to get the basics down pat.

Mreine, thats a rather negative assumption to make....
I learned HTML in a few days....
I learned ASP very quickly... in one week.. partly because I've known standard BASIC for 20+ years but still fast.

Apex..... kids (no offence) learn extremely fast and I wouldnt be suprised if you learned faster than I did with the right mind set and dedication.... you just need to knuckle down and get some real knowledge FAST. Dont bother trying to get people to do the bulk of this for you.... if you do, then you may as well quit now because you wont learn anything. Act like a sponge and soak up some knowledge quickly if you are truly serious about this, but regardless.... i do think you should slow down some.

Hope this helps.

__________________
Rob - SEO Specialist
Owner & Founder of Webforumz.com

I am currently unavailable for private work

Top notch post Rob!

My whole point about him showing that type of site was based on him starting a business and already having 3 clients! STOP IMMEDIATELY! If it was remotely decent I would have suggested he finish his commitment to these clients. What I would have said about the site itself is obviously unknown because there is no decent site.

Maybe it was over the top a litte, but come on! The kid completes Web Design 1 and starts looking for clients already. If he wants to enter the business world, then he can learn to take some heat. He'll get way more heat after his clients get burned out of some cash. At 14, his clients have no recourse to sue him. And also, he's not in India so it really doesn't matter what they do there. In the U.S. we have laws pertaining to minors working.

Does he have a work permit?

Minors 14 through 17 years of age may only work with a work permit

Hours: Minors 14 and 15 years of age may not be employed or permitted to:

• work more than 4 hours on any day when school is in session
• work more than 8 hours a day on any day when school is not in session
• work more than 23 hours in any week when school is in session
• work more than 40 hours in any week when school is not in session
• work before 7:00 a.m. or after 8:00 p.m. Minors may work until 9:00 p.m. from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
• work more than 5 consecutive hours without a non-working period of at least 30 minutes

I think you people are being way to casual about whats going on. Just because he's behind a computer screen doesn't void him of the laws.

You see his payment method? You aren't supposed to send payment to his company because we all know it's not a valid company and the money won't be reported. He's already starting off bad. Sure he won't make enough to even pay taxes, but you still have to report income. Welcome to a real business kid.

I bet his parents would crap a brick if they knew their 14 year old kid was plastering their apartment address and phone number on the internet.

BTW...He's using GMAIL as his contact email. Come on!

errr, shut up geek!

Don't bring in all that irrelevant s**t just because someone's given you a bollocking for beig too harsh.

It's a Citique of his site not the ins and outs of his business practices and CERTAINLY not accusations of him contravening any laws!

Minute44, this is equally as unhelpful if you ask me.

Can we tone this down a little? People have valid points here, but they are being very inconsiderate in the way they put them across, thats the only problem here.

No-one wants an argument, so please decease and lets all get back onto the topic of helping.

__________________
Rob - SEO Specialist
Owner & Founder of Webforumz.com

I am currently unavailable for private work

Who cares how he is going to accept payments? He isn’t going to get sent any in the first place, however this is critique of ones site not a forum discussing business opportunities at ages below adulthood, may I add I had a porn site when I was 15..

People can learn to make websites at much younger ages, nowadays age doesn’t matter, if you have the style, skill and time opportunities are endless, and your forgetting everyone starts somewhere I mean you only have to take one look at your

http://www.atechonline.com/

Site to see that by the time he is the same age as you he will more than likely be 10x better than you, young people are full of imagination, ie students invented stuff like eBay and Unix to name 2 huge brands.

And yes frames are really bad especially for people browsing via WAP, and before anyone slates me off saying people don’t use WAP, well your wrong I WAP to quite a few sites, depends if you have a good enough phone or not. And TBH I wouldn’t even implement Frames into an Intranet.

It’s a shame we have to get people that have to excessively pick fault and get personal and loose touch in the reason why they SHOULD be here in the first place.. helping and giving their constructive criticism concerning their creative content –heh V for vendetta C style.

1. Oh and atechonline.com doesn’t validate purely because of:
   Error Line 127 column 126: end tag for "img" omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified.

...andnational.com/42/138/52" alt=""></a>
Which would take 10seconds to fix.. so do it!


BACK ONTO TOP!

Yes mate loose the frames, use tables if you have to, generate a style of designing that your comfy with, visit www.w3.org and start from there.

Download Macromedia Studio 8, if you need a "link" PM me and ill give you a link so long as you promise to buy if you use it.

I would recommend visiting www.yourhtmlsource.com as that site seems to do a good job explaining the basics, although watch out for his use of capitals in his examples of HTML, as thats classed as invalid HTML.

What you need is some reference material to build off to help you get the hang of writing valid, pretty and accessible sites, if you would like a template making plz again PM me and ill send you a zip file.

also id add meta tags, although i havent in any of my sites they are handy for bots.

<html>
<head><title>Apex Web Development</title><base target="main"></head>
<frameset rows="150,*">
<frame src="header.htm" border=1 scrolling=no noresize>
<frameset cols="175,*">
<frame src="links.htm" border=1 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 scrolling=no noresize>
<frame src="main.htm" name="main" noresize>
</frameset>

Make sure you close your tags

</body>
</html> are required to say the very least.

And if you are going to use frames makes them non viewable as they look nasty, I would also say those colours dont make it look nice on the eyes when your trying to read with that background.

Also that text background is taken from another site and is TM/Copyrighted, So i would use your own graphics otherwise you could be getting a very snotty/serious email.

Once again frames can be simulated with CSS if you need the "Effect" and of course iFrames are still frames but a little less annoying imo. php includes are good too if you need sep files for stuff. Frames are the suck.

You "unsupportive jerk"

haha couldnt resist

Nice short reply then eh trig?

OFC (That short enough)>?

Back on topic men, thanks.

darudeuk, you have no clue bud how the atechonline site came about. It's based on somebody elses idea of what they wanted to see. I'm currently reworking it because the concept failed. I tried to work with the concept and even posted for a critique where it got ripped. No big deal. I'm reworking another concept that will take it's place. Our business doesn't come from the Web, so no big deal on whether the site even exists, that's why it's sitting there untouched since the critique and not even past concept and validation.

You should learn to gather information darudeuk!

We have information from this apex kid and that's what my posts were based on.

Edited for maturity. Let's all be adults when we post, no matter what our ages are.

I fear herkalees will have something to say about getting back on topic here, however your slating ppl for their work, and when you posted you asked for critique and mentioned nothing of baseing it on another design, however i may point out that i have emailed w3.org for your unjust inserts of their certificates on your site, which does NOT conform to their standards, thefore are, false claims.

Minutes also pulled you up on this on your own thread, i didnt realise/noticed till he told me about it when i picked him up about 5mins ago, so i should be very careful from now on.

Please get back to topic or dont bother posting again.

lol... glad you have time to waste on something like that.

Spinal, I respect your entire post, but this was just as out of line as mine was.

I hope he achieves a lot and goes far beyond I ever can in web design, more power to him. You couldn't be further from the truth here. I don't even desire to do websites beyond the simple ones I do as filler work. I get on average $2,000 a site and that's just peanuts compared to many web designers, my main focus is the CAD design work.

Creating websites are one thing, but trying to sell himself as a designer this soon is another situation entirely.

Problem is, that's not for you to judge... Why can't he try?

I know 25 year olds that have done nothing with their lives since they were 12. This kid is starting early and is keen to achieve something. How he goes about it is his choice. He's young, he'll cock up and he'll learn the best ways to do things in life. Just like we're all still doing. Who are you to say what he can or can't do?

We're only here to share web-design advice, let's stick to that...