crewdesign.co.uk/foodbox

Maybe not a bg colour but maybe a texture, a light pinstripe may look nice.....

Yeah thats what i was thinking, so do you think the actual design and layout is fine then and i just might eant to improve the graphics?

If I'm perfectly honest... I think this is what will happen. You will begin to learn and master CSS and add bits and pieces here and there and your design will get better and better.

Then you'll reach a point where you'll think; "right, with all these new skills I'll be able to make this site loads better if I start from scratch." and that's what you'll do.

So my suggestion is play around with this version and get your CSS skills really up to scratch. Then build your recipe site.

Ok, i see what you mean

What I am seeing is a layout being created however you can get it to work. I have a feeling you don't fully understand the fundamentals of the box model, margins, padding, floating, absolute positioning, and how one thing affects the other. It's like you are just tossing out settings until all of a sudden it works.

No doubt about it, this stuff can get frustrating. It's easy to say "YES, got it" and then move on to another part of the layout. However, there are many wrong ways to accomplish certain things. I can't possibly go in to this in depth.

It's great that you are making the transition to css and xhtml, glad to see it. Just take the time to fully experiment with the box model and actually learn what the settings do.

This food site is a great opportunity to experiment and try to create the layout using several different methods. Try to logically work it out and use a minimal amount of css to accomplish the task. Work on the document structure without any CSS at first. Forget about color until you have the layout figured out, just use shades of grey for now if you need to distinquish areas. It's all a series of steps and you shouldn't jump ahead until you fully understand each one. Focus on one thing at a time. Otherwise, you end up with a site and have no idea how you got there.

mreine, I do believe you just spoke for 85% of all "web developers" out there. You definitely hit the nail on the head by pointing out a situation that is extremely common.

It's a very "normal" place to be, what mreine describes, and it's where so many developers are. Unfortunately, most give up there and move onto other languages, or stop learning all together.

If all these developers would accept that this (above) is where they are, and take the time to learn the finer details, the internet would be a better place.

Great writing/observation mreine.

Thanks Herkalees for the kind words.

Even for me, I know that I have a very good grip on this stuff, but sometimes a layout can make me feel like I know absolutely nothing. I have to go back and reference the basics all the time just to make sure I'm not nuts thinking that something should be doing what I want it to do.

I am still waiting for the dream of cross-browser correct standards support!!

Until the day where all browsers are created by the same team of (smart) people, I'm afraid we'll always have our work cut out for us.

Yours is the same as mine in a way, however it is real hard going to get anything submitted by people. www.cookingzone.co.uk

So I have decided to try something different but not saying as yet what it will be. It has something to do with food but not recipes like this in this format. It will still take a couple of months before I have it ready, being bogged down by work.

Sorry i havent replied to this thread in a while ive been away, thanks for all your suggestions.

i dont agree with minute44, i think it looks fine, along with the custom 404, however theres a broken link on the document, changing the menu colours to suit theme would be nice.

Would do well to spend abit more work with it, whats with this new fangled obsession with centering pages, yes sometimes it looks good, othertimes, centerness is not welcome!

Centered sites will be around forever.... it's just your own personal taste at the end of the day.

This site too is centered for example.

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nah this site is fine, and its HTML certified I like

and sometimes centered does suit, and work really well. others well not sure, minute44 is wanting me to change rooflineuk.com but thats more hassle than its worth, next site i make i will center it and see how it goes

Bear in mind 2weeks ago id never used CSS before, not to the extent of rooflineuk.com or for its real purpose.