MachinedBrassInserts

Hello-
Thanks in advance for critiquing my web site. Keep in mind that the customer wanted a 'sterile, professional look'. Also, the site is not complete (the search function and php file attachment in the quote form) The site needs to be finished for me to generate the search index and error trapping the php sendmail script. I've been designing sites since the late 90's but have never developed a 'flair' or 'eye' for design. Being my own worst critic, I think it looks 'dated' and 'flat'. I don't want to overuse graphic layers or things like gradient backdrops, etc. for saving bandwidths sake. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

What browser are you using?
There seems to be some problem with your footer!

• No style sheet found
• 2 HTML error

You are using table then!
We don't recommend table for lay-outing your page. Table are for tabular data.

Use CSS/DIV instead..

Cheers..

Sorry but both the code and design are terrible.

You say you started doing websites in the late 90s? Looks like your practices have never progressed.

Maybe he did not touch any of the code during that period!
See.. you are still using TABLE!

People use TABLE long time ago, now we got CSS to the rescue..

I'm quite concerned that he's been in the game for roughly a decade and is still producing stuff like this.

Perhaps he was HIBERNATING?
No offense there webfella..

You are completely right, if you ask me. It's flat and very, very dated. You say you don't overuse graphics, but your Navigation is images, and you could do a much nicer navigation with CSS.

In IE7 the footer displays wrong:

The header is easily the best part of the site, I like the background texture on it and I think you have chosen a very nice font for the job. HOWEVER, once again, you have made the entire header a graphic, yet the text could easily be a <h1>. This makes a smaller image size and is better for SEO.

The footer, could also be text.

The background for the main content should just be a solid white colour.

Cheers,

Jack

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"sterile, professional look" oh boy i think both my sides have split.... 999 please... someone ring... sooon ....

Light grey background with white text.... I dont care when he learned webdesign how hard is that to read?

http://www.machinedbrassinserts.com/banner.gif
Right TOO MUCH IMAGES FOR TOO MUCH TEXT

How can a search engine read this? Why do all the graphics look like something PRE Playstation1? The code itself made me throwup on view, im still shocked on the result of:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...Inline&group=0

2 Errors, impressive... shocking in some respects.

http://www.hughfrostgardendesign.co.uk/
Try there for cleanish coding, WAI-AAA and CSS
And ive been doing website for about hmmm 8years maybe... but doing them to standards for about 2years. I too not long ago had no idea of CSS, was a complete table and style whore. It's easy to pickup... just means forgetting everything you already know!


Id also have a gander about at: http://www.cssbeauty.com/


Just a comment on your comments: "I've been designing sites since the late 90's but have never developed a 'flair' or 'eye' for design."

I wouldnt say you have designed anything to be honest... I would help yourself and get some confidence with yourself, develop your skills. PM me if you want a hand, some links etc!

"I think it looks 'dated' and 'flat'. I don't want to overuse graphic layers or things like gradient backdrops, etc. for saving bandwidths sake" You said it yourself... so why not act on your instincts?

There is one vital link for you to look at though, somewhere to read up and think about, http://www.w3.org/

Another site I think you might like the look of ive done is www.assemblyangels.co.uk

Have a good en, and if you dont want to post PM me!

Can I ask, did you hand-code or use a WYSIWYG (which seems more likely having looked at the code)
You should also have a look at this:
http://www.websiteoptimization.com/s...assinserts.com


And take special note about this:

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Ooooh k.... Well, constructive criticism is a positive thing. I guess I was looking more for 'professional' suggestions than a full on assault. I'm not a web designer by trade. I'm also a product of Microsoft Bloatware®. Used to be in the day that the 'leaner the meaner' but I digress, I've gotten lazy. I don't know CSS. I've had many problems w/various browsers (namely MS Internet Exploder) rendering layers and divs. The nav buttons are no more than 1.4k in size each and the header if 41k (compressed jpg). Sorry if the whole broadband thing hasn't quite caught on there in the UK. I guess what I was looking for was 'ok, white text on gray background doesn't work - try it -this- way- . I hope I don't come off ticked, just more disappointed than anything I guess. The pages render fine in the 'big 2' browsers and Opera and Safari. And what's '999'? Is that like our 911? Seriously though, thanks for the input. I'll try to gather SOME constructive criticism out of it.

What do you view as the big browsers?

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Firefox (first in my book), IE both v6 and v7 I cheat, I guess. I'm using Seamonkey (Firefox's WYSIWYG) dev tool. I don't have time to learn another language that'll probably be 'old hat' next month. I used to write Delphi apps. Yes, another mainstream, hot language that's bitten the dust. I understand the need for streamlined code when it comes to critical things like database searches, text parsing, security, etc. but don't really consider HTML/CSS a 'proper' programming language. If I need to make sure my 'code' works for some guy in Somalia with a 300k baud acoustic coupler modem and Netscape 1.1, well, it's just not worth it. What I'd like is to use collective expertise on making a visually appealing more 'modern' looking site. Suggestions on color compliments, navigation, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

Alright ... I'll tell you right now HTML and CSS are not going away anytime soon.

HTML and CSS are the mark-up/code/whatever-you-want-to-call-it needed to display websites in a browser.

HTML is the markup and CSS is use for the presentation side of things. Think of HTML as the framework of your house and CSS as the paint on the walls

AS for the crits on your site ... the white text in the menu IS hard to read. And those menu buttons look like they were done in the 90s ... actually ... the whole site looks very "flat" and "dated" I have to agree.

Follow minutedesigns advice and get some inspiration on the many css showcase sites.

Sorry to burst your bubble but as my link proves, it does not display correctly in IE7.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ac/website.jpg

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Ouch.... You are correct. I have a laptop running Vista (not my choice, I had no choice) and IE7. Oddly enough, it looks fine there. That illustrates my frustration with Microsoft and their uncanny ability to throw wrenches in the works of industry standards. That appears to be a wayward position:absolute. How the heck do I fix it?

That's because it's not a programming language at all. But let's not split hairs over that.

You absolutely must learn modern web standards if you're going to make anything worthwhile in web design. Fact.

Ouch. Ouch Ouch Ouch.

I think you have some weird way of testing websites, but it doesn't display correctly in Firefox on Vista either.



You really scare me. Old hat - is what you are doing now. The code you have is old hat. The design you have is old hat.

Yet, you make incredible uneducated assumptions about code that is considered to be modern, and will be for some time.

If you want to know the truth - what you are doing was never the correct way. Tables were designed, from day 1, for TABULAR data - nothing else.

So there.

Attached Images

testshit.jpg (14.9 KB, 48 views)

Well, you seem to be taking quite a beating, so I'll try to play the nice guy for once. Rest assured that I'm actually a terrifying ogre.

You have good intentions, such as "keep the file size small" and "don't use pointless graphics". Sadly, the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and in design terms, that's the road you've been walking for a long, long time.

The good news is that it's not too late to be saved. You are clearly able to take criticism (a trait of surpassing value), and you're not blind to your design shortcomings (well, not to all of them anyway). Listen to these people; they know what they're talking about (and so do I).

You may decide to leave this website as it is. Regardless, you should invest serious time and effort into mastering HTML and CSS. There's no way around this; no Faustian pact with Frontpage will save your soul.

Do the virtuous thing. Learn the tools of your craft. The rewards will come.

Seriously, thanks for the suggestion. I'm not making money on this site, and have no intentions of becoming a 'web professional'. Not to mention, no time or resources to learn Web 2.0, Ajax, CSS, Javabeans, Java, Perl, Ruby, Diamond, Emerald, C#, C-, C#maj7, Cobol, RPG, APL or Algol-68. I'm just looking for design improvements. I'm a netadmin (and a pretty good one at that). One enigma is those darn graphics that don't seem to render. I'm using a GUI site designer (I have a time constraint). SeaMonkey allows 'injection' of CSS elements by adding "Advanced Properties" to certain things. With the graphic, I am specifying "position:absolute" so that I might be able to freely move the graphic in it's respective layer and plunk it into the page. The graphic renders at left/right/top/bottom coordinates but are obviously misplaced or misrendered somehow at your browser. You guys there in the UK must be using metric pixels, and I'm using the SAE ones. (hahaha).... I don't understand it. It looks like they're positioned right in every browser I have and every PC I have. (Vista, XP, Linux). Also, I've even called people and asked them how it renders. While it might not be the prettiest placement, they all said it looked fine. I'll shut up now.

Pffft. You don't need any of those apart from CSS. I haven't even heard of half of them.

You'll find it difficult to get help with the rendering problems. I have no idea how your GUI site designer works, so I can't advise you on it.

I can advise you that you have no need for { position: absolute }. This is a powerful CSS property, but quickly causes chaos when used by beginners or when splashed around by design programs. The use of { position: absolute } should be avoided until you have a deep understanding of CSS layout.

Your website is extremely simple. You just need a few <div>s for the header, footer, and columns. Float one of them left or right, apply a clearing fix for the footer, and you're done.

Well, I get exactly the same error as Vivara posted above.