good 'n filthy

hey all,
just wanted to enter my portfolio site i just launched. i'm still testing it and tweaking minor stuff. but it's pretty much done
joanne
http://www.goodnfilthy.com

Joanne,

I've seen a few sites with this style and most have been dull and depressing. Yours has humour, a little vulgarity :razz: and is not only colourful but enjoyable to browse.

The photoshop work is excellent, the flash work is great too...
I just love the way you've done it and pulled off the style.

You're definetly a contender for website of the week and you've got my vote already. (I'll run it next week).

Well done.

Please note Kulegamr's response:

Kulegamr:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="geneva, verdana, arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Well.. to be honest with you.... Your skills with graphics are quite good. They surpass mine, which isnt saying much by the way. You seem to have some skills with Flash, but what I can tell you aren't is a designer. Your buttons are very difficult to find. The average person will get agrivated with this and leave. So make them stand out, put a spotlight on them or something, dont make them just a part of the graphic. Also, you seem to be doing something weird with all the pop-ups. My blocker won't allow me to see your pop-up screens, so I have to disable my blocker to view your site. This will annoy the average AOL user too. Also, whats with the Big scrolling bar at the bottom? Its like 10% of your site. Make it smaller, and more discreet. Also, just to let you know, in recent polls people said one thing they hate are scrollers. So you might think about a buttons system that gives the same effect. Ok, thats all I really have time for right now, but believe me, you've done way better than I could do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

http://www.webforumz.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=379

Please use this thread to discuss the site (and not the link).

After reading Kulegamr's reply...

These were things I took into consideration. It's definetly a web designer's site for webdesigner's and isn't too good for clients, but after look at your client list I can't see you getting clients being a huge problem? So the site is sound in that respect.

As Kulegamr said, the "Average person" will get annoyed with your site and leave. But your site isn't made for the average person.

It is a little difficult to use, but I like that. I like it standing out and not being the same as everything else with huge "CLICK HERE" buttons.

The horizontal scroller is great - I love that, it's also different. The survey to which Kulegamr refers on scrollers is standard HTML pages where you have to scroll right and left again to read the content as the lines go off the edge of your screen. That clearly isn't a problem here.

Your popups could be a little problem. Maybe redirect the whole page, or get the flash to load into the flash you're viewing - That would be better. But that's a minor usability niggle. No-one would have battered an eyelid over it a year ago.

Kulegamr also said:
"but what I can tell you aren't is a designer."
Whatever that means... I think he's trying to say that because your site isn't dumbed down like every other site out there and actually tries to be wholly original, you're not a designer as you've ignored usability issues. I couldn't disagree more. Your site is good BECAUSE it goes against all that and does it in style.

The only slightly confusing bit is your Flash web design section (with the woman and the TV). I figured out how to browse it, then noticed later that you have instructions:

which I couldn't see and can't read anyway!! My only niggle.

Hey, I like it. If I never see another 2 Advanced looking site again I'll die happy. Having tried to do some montages like you've used on your site I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into distressing and adding all the little details.

I agree with kent that it might be better without popup windows. And I think I'd like some kind of rollover/label effect so that I know what I've moused over (I clicked on 3 different things that all pulled up the music popup, not knowing they were all the same link.)

Anyway, very nice design work so far

Cat

thanks so much Sirkent and catalyst -- i appreciate all the constructive criticism and thoughts on the site i actually wrote a longish reply to Kulegamrs post and then decided on not posting it. i like to feel i'm good at taking constructive criticism as im quite used to it by now, but writing back to him felt like i had to explain myself and defend myself - mainly cuz he lacked etiquette in his post saying things like i wasnt a designer etc... but then i looked at his profile and realized he was an 18 year old kid that hasnt learned better with a website i didn't think was all that so i shouldnt put much weight into his critique. and i didn't want to come off being a nasty person either

that said, you nailed everything i basically was going to write-- what my target audience was (obviously i know how to dumb down sites and make them accessible to all if he had looked at any of the sites i had made in the portfolio section). i wanted it to be an art piece in itself and make something that defied all i had to do when i worked at sony music for so long. there's so many rules to follow to make sure the average joe can easily navigate around and fastly that i had to abide by, but i wanted my site to be more of an experience and if they have to noodle around a little - cool. i tried not to make it impossible hard tho that it would be frustrating. but i think its a great idea Catalyst for me to put a rollover text for each panel saying something so people dont think they can click different areas of each panel for different things. i thought the note in the beginning for navigation would be enough but i can see i was wrong.

i agree that the popups maybe too much - but it was yet another "rebellion" of mine, haha - something i could have never gotten away with for a corporate site. when i started making my site tho, i didnt know that popup blockers would affect it so much as to block ones that you had to click to get (i thought it was only for automatic popups that happen without the user instigating it). but at the point where i realized it may be an issue, it was entirely too late. after months and months of hard work, there just aint goin back on that one, know what i mean? also, on what he had said as well - if someone's using AOL to view my site, i dont want to work for them! hahah this site is purely to get another good job and have it up and done in case i get laid off again or dont like my job. it definitely isnt for the average user on a modem.

Sirkent-- as for the web section with the note on navigation, do you think that would be easily solved if i just made the font bigger? (hopefully if i have room!)

my only worry was if anyone had any beef with loading time at all? of course it isnt meant for modems, but just wanted to make sure the waits were reasonable.... thanks so much for your input!!

joanne

Ohh.. let me clarify what I meant by the not a designer.... I didnt mean, hey you suck.. lol, I meant more like your not a stereotype. Your not a "designer". How to explain....

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="geneva, verdana, arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i agree that the popups maybe too much - but it was yet another "rebellion" of mine, haha - something i could have never gotten away with for a corporate site. when i started making my site tho, i didnt know that popup blockers would affect it so much as to block ones that you had to click to get (i thought it was only for automatic popups that happen without the user instigating it). but at the point where i realized it may be an issue, it was entirely too late. after months and months of hard work, there just aint goin back on that one, know what i mean? also, on what he had said as well - if someone's using AOL to view my site, i dont want to work for them! hahah this site is purely to get another good job and have it up and done in case i get laid off again or dont like my job. it definitely isnt for the average user on a modem<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This paragraph is exactly what I mean by that. Your not a by the book, Designer that puts out things that are going to be standard and graphic oriented.. you have way too much media/features to be a designer.. I would consider you more of a Animator/Graphics Artist. I don't think anyone can disagree with that lol. And you know what I think of your talent with graphics, they rock!!!

Ok.. as for my age and my webdesign experience.. I dont think my age should affect your thoughts about me... unless I was under 14...

My last and final portion... Josmets, I was very nice to you compared to a lot of people's sites that I have posted replies too. You wanted criticism, thats what criticism is, not saying, Ohh your site is awesome, but telling you whats wrong with it. But if you want to hear it, your site is awesome. You did a great job. I do believe I mentioned the fact that you did better than I could have done. But... you need to take criticism from everywhere you can. I am considered the best trombone player in the state for my age group, but I still take criticism from people that are younger and would never even make it to State.. You learn different people's ideas, and their thoughts and you make them your own.. That's how you become great.

I wish you luck in your future.

kulegamr-- actually my point wasnt that i needed smoke blown up my ass. i truly do value constructive criticism, but by the age comment, i meant that you need to learn some tact (which will come with age). people won't take you seriously if come off the way you did, overall having a bitter condescending tone with a couple of nice words thrown in to counter it a bit.

i still dont agree with your definition of a designer and really, really dont get the "obviously you're not a designer" statement. a designer has nothing to do with being standard (in fact the best ones aren't, thats why the term designer is tied into a creative/artistic conception and the best art is not standard) and "graphical" is making the assumption that you are indeed talking in art terms. maybe the term you are more thinking of is Web Developer or something if you're not talking about animation/graphic artist stuff. either way, i still would consider myself a web developer for chrissakes...

i'm not going to get in a lame email war or massive debate, but i just suggest you try to think out things a bit more when you write them. i'm sorry to hear that that post was one of the "very nice" ones of yours, i'd be scared to read the others. its TOTALLY cool to talk about things that you had problems with on a site, thats what this forum is for and i wouln't have asked for people's opinions if it weren't. but hopefully you can understand how you came off and get that you can be constructive and decent/professional about it at the same time (as the other 2 guys have done). that's how people will listen to you. i appreciate the nice things you said though and thank you. good luck in your future as well....

I think this forum has a range of people from hobbyists to people who make some money at it up to professionals that have had long careers in the field. Dealing with clients or other employees in a work environment certainly changes the way you communicate, and in my experience people who haven't gone through that (age regardless)can come off sounding bad even if they're trying to be helpful.

That said, kulegamr, your original post seems pretty clear in it's negative tone, in fact it's almost all negative, and I think the "clarifying" later comes off as you trying to change what you said and not fix confusion over the wording. (Notice I'm not offering "constructive" criticism on your writing style) If you think something sucks then you're free to say so, but it might not go over well and it might change the way other people in the forums think of you and deal with you. And to tell someone that they're a better designer than you are, and then go on to criticise their work is either contradictory or arrogant sounding.

Normally I'd just keep quiet about my opinion on this exchange as it has nothing to do with me, but after hosting web development chats for years I've got some strong opinions on what makes something like these forums a community rather than just a message board, and in my opinion the tone/professionalism of the postings is a critical part of that.

So, back to the topic... I didn't find the load times to be a problem. Maybe having the popups windows all open to the same screen coordinates would help some, give them the appearance of an organized system.

Cat

Well, I think this thread has taken some interesting turns!!

Referring back to the site:
I realised what the problem with the "information" on the flash page was, that I posted about before. My browser opened the popup window as full screen, so the transparent gif was not where you intended it to be and was therefore unreadable. This happens on some browsers out there and also on IE, as a bug. The text itself is large enough to read, it simply had your "grotty" black texture behind it (no offence intended!) and therefore was unreadable.
After seeing the popup window properly it is readable there.

Load times weren't a problem for me at all. I can see those on dialup being annoyed but many websites are heading this way now and the site wouldn't be the same if it was stripped down.

I showed the site to a couple of friends today, neither of which are design-orientated. One said he could understand the skill involved but didn't like the grungy style - Which he noted you use for most of your sites. The other said it was just "weird" and left it at that!!
Oh well! Clearly this is something only other designers can appreciate.

hey sirkent, what browser were you on that the popup opened as a full window like that, i never heard of that. thanks

those were funny comments that your friends had - put a smile on my face hahah

Ok, Technically I am using IE, but it is a modified version called MyIE2 - See here. I'm not sure if it's MyIE2 or my strange popup blocker...or something else...lol.

sirkent- good lord, i just downloaded myie2 and tried it myself. it aint just yours, it made all my popups into full windows. what a bummer. and it does it for any site in the past with popups as well(www.goodnfilthy.com/peteyorn_2002 for example)- i hoped maybe it would help if i checked off the adblocker and stuff, but no such luck. i guess i just have to let that one go as there's nothing i can do about it. but man, does it look ****ty with all those opening in full pages that will really blow if all new browsers are headed in that direction...
thanks for letting me know tho!
joanne

Hmmm, I think it might just be MyIE2 and I have no idea why it does it!!

no its not, like i said, its my MyIE2 as well - not just yours. that's the way they made the browser i guess...

I really don't have a taste for such sofake.com styled websites which will get the regular visitor being chased away in no time at all.

Whether this site is good or bad is for your target audience.

If it is to impress, then, maybe it will stand out. ( to show your 'creativity' ? ) However, impressive as it may be to some, other potential employers, after visiting the site, will cancel you off their list.

If it is for your friends, colleaques, if they are just visiting your site for fun, it will certainly get their applause.. no doubt.

if it is for me, i'll jump down a 100 storey building

well i get your point gwx. although being compared to a site that has absolutely no navigation sense at all like you pointed out (with just squares that go to random places and make you dig deeper to find any content whatsoever verses actual panels in mine that say "photography, web design, contact" etc) doesn't seem to quite correlate. but hey, to each his own and its totally cool if you're not in my target audience. i highly doubt i will be cancelled of an actual design firm lists as a potential employee as they are trained in the same field as i am. i'm not trying to get the type of clients in the sense you are thinking. (i do not wish to freelance). hope i have successfully saved you from jumping of a building.

p.s. http://www.requiemforadream.com/ and http://www.donniedarko.com are two of my favorite sites in that style you hate so much. websites can be about experience and not "i have to find this one part and fast!" if they're done right, of course; you're example wasn't enticing to me, i agree with you on that one... just my two cents.

cheers.

I think with a better navigation system and a more umm... professional site, you'll get far better approval.:wink: There can be 2 ways to do it... (1) On the front page, create a link.. one goes to a more professional site ( maybe with links printed out ) and one goes to the site you've already created (2) on the original site, create some sort of a rollover or a small menu in which the user can navigate

I know from the 'art' way of thinking, it should be ok and maybe great. but i must admit im not that sort of a artistic person though . Well, the flash and photoshop were very well done and I'm sure you've spent weeks on it. In fact, I don't believe I'll be able to have the patience or the expertise to create such work either.

I was about to jump off a building though

Well at first I did not like the site, it was grungy and felt dirty, and kind of "shouldn't be looking at this" kind of feeling, if you know what I mean (I think it was the anim of the man smacking the woman that done it - it's not right, but I still looked.. The kind of situation where there is a car accident, you should not look, but you do, and then feel guilty with yourself)

I realized that you portrayed the goodnfiltht image *very well*, the site deserved the name (in a good way), as I said earlier, it felt grungy and dirty.

I have now been back to the site 4 or 5 times now since it has been posted to the forum, so I can make up my mind, and yep, I like it! It grew on me and you should be pleased, I would be!

My only negative is the popups, but as you said, it get to the point of no return, we have all been there, and will probably be there again.

I am not a designer, just a mere coder. The site is off beat, not sure if it is anti-design, cause I didn't think design had any rules. It was different and original (to me).

Well done.

u2o

hahah u2orange. quite a cute post. and i didnt even have any nudity on it! haha (check out a great inspirational site www.plastickid.dk that kid is soooo good and the collaborational Rodeo online splash magazine is AMAZING)

well if it makes you feel any better: the first photo you see is my mother and her mother in 1969. her mom was helping her with some bizarre game with a clothespin for her baby shower when she was pregnant. my mom aint the slightest bit upset with her being the star of the site so to speak... she was just like "oh that was at your brothers baby shower..." all matter of factly. haha

the one of the spanking is my other grandma and my uncle. that grandma has seen it and laughed a good deal. put a smile on her face when my dad asked if she remembered that. the one of the woman next to the t.v. in the webdesign section, sitting down, is moms again. and in the photo section looking at the projector screen is me. a bunch of family is also all over those framed photos in the photo nav panel. so see? its all good natured humour and its got all their approvals, no exploitation now you can sleep good at nite after looking at the site 4 or 5 times. hahah

xo