IE/Firefox positioning problems

[jordan8201]

I am trying to create a new layout for my page, but the formatting is quite different in Firefox and IE, and I do not want to go too far w/o getting this figured out. The borders and margins are much different. What causes this? IE is even missing a button.I have tried everything I can think of in getting the horizontal menu positioned correctly both in Firefox and IE. I tried both inside and outside of cells, and I even tried absolute positioning for the DIV. I do not know what else to do. The menu is even slightly larger in Firefox. Why can’t I get IE to look like Firefox? It doesn’t make sense that IE will not look the way I think it should.

The URL is www.mzbc.com/test.htm

Also, I can’t seem to get rid of the space below the horizontal menu.

Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

Jedidiah

[yngexec]

If you have your heart set on having it in a table you can align the contents of that row to the top...that could help...

I'm also one of the world's worst debuggers though, lol

[jordan8201]

Thanks. I don't really have my heart set on using tables, its just all I know. I would like to learn to do it all with CSS, but I have not had any training and am only learning so much from tutorials. I believe i have the alignment set to top, but I will check it out. It looks correct in firefox, but I can't post it until it lokos decent in IE. My current page is www.mzbc.com. I want to take away the left menu and add the top menu. The rest of the content will probably stay about the same. Thanks for the reply.

Jedidiah

[Wintonian]

Have you thought of using one of the excellent DHTML menu builder tools?
I use the free version of OpenCube DHTML Menu.
The build interface allows a tremendous amount of customisation and subsequent mods can be made directly through a .js file.
The URL is http://www.opencube.com
You will be able to make many types of menu with this.
You can see some of the menus I have created on these websites that I wrote: (use IE to view)
http://www.littletillcottage.com
http://www.winterbournestoke.com
http://www.fire-helmets.com
These show a few examples of what can be done.
Regrettably Firefox makes a mess of the menus, as it does of so much, but since the vast majority of people use IE, and Firefox will have to come into line sooner or later, I wonder why this is a problem.
IE is also free. The issue of security is a non-issue if your PC is correctly protected with good Anti-Virus software (such as AVG Free edition) and a Firewall.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Wintonian

Regrettably Firefox makes a mess of the menus, as it does of so much, but since the vast majority of people use IE, and Firefox will have to come into line sooner or later, I wonder why this is a problem.

This really makes me laugh....

It's IE thats broken.... not Firefox. Firefox is many times more standards compliant than IE is.

"Firefox will come into line sooner or later" .... ROFLMAO

Make a browser that even an dummy can use..... and only dummies will use it.

Seriously, it's time people stiopped pandering to this 5 year old browser and forget it.... wait till IE7 is released sometime this year.

Why fuel a dead browser by developing for it? It only prolongs it longevity.... when it's better dead and buried... at least till it comes up to scratch.

Only microsoft could make a browser that 'guesses' at what the developer meant..... because of this single fact developers are lazy..... they use shitty code and IE guesses it right sometimes... sometimes not. Whereas the like of opera and firefox are strict in terms of it's render engine. Seriously though, IE is the single cause of so much shitty code... why? because people take the path of least resistance.... in other words.. lazy. If IE never existed and we are always forced to develop for a strict set of standards, then the problem goes away.

I'm not saying firefox, opera, konqueror, et al are without faults, but IE6 is not a browser I personally bother too much about.... because I know it's 5 years old and that IE7 will surpass it (long, long overdue as it is)

[benbramz]

Originally Posted by Wintonian

IE is also free.

Oh i forgot that i didnt pay for firefox...
rob is very much right Wintonian...IE has flasws in it like a fishing net has gaps...if you build for firefox bugs are easier to iron out in IE.
Sorry - your advice is very inaccurate..

[aerosoul]

i've got kind of the same problem..

www.bukbuk.nl/technophobics

I miss the complete right side of the page in Internet Explorer?
does someone know why?

[herkalees]

Originally Posted by Wintonian

Regrettably Firefox makes a mess of the menus, as it does of so much, but since the vast majority of people use IE, and Firefox will have to come into line sooner or later, I wonder why this is a problem.
IE is also free. The issue of security is a non-issue if your PC is correctly protected with good Anti-Virus software (such as AVG Free edition) and a Firewall.

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

Code for firefox, then tweak for IE, plain and simple. Any other method is backwards.

B for effort, F+ for results.

[Wintonian]

I am sure that Rob and all you other clever types are absolutely right. I suspected that I might get such a reaction, but did not think that the webmaster would be so rude. I do not know what an SEO Specialist is, but I am sure it means that Rob is a very clever person indeed in his particular little corner of the office.
At the moment the fact is that IE is used by the majority of ordinary people - whether it is compliant or not. The nerds will always use something else, or even an Apple Mac, but in the world of business, these nerds are rarely the targets.
Of more importance, surely, is the fact that that the person that started this thread asked for help.
I gave a little, but the knowledgeable ones seemed to prefer to spend their time being destructive rather than helpful.
I will have my 61st birthday in a few days time, so am not, perhaps as up to date with these things as, for instance, my son, who is a professional web developer and programmer. I would not consider him to be a lazy programmer, however, though the latest release of Visual Basic, which he downloaded last night, appears to move everyone in that direction since it contains so much "pre-coded" stuff. Very handy.
I came across this site while searching for some info on some esoteric css functions.

Come on you bunch of web geniuses! Give the chap some help with his problem!

[Rob]

I just cant stand it when advice is dished out that results in solutions which are far from cross browser. Forgive me for stepping in and my perceived rudeness, but as a representaive authority for web design and development, we have to be on the bleeding edge of the technology front and lead developers / designers into good habits... not bad.

I understand where you are coming from and perhaps my post did open the door for the hijacking of this thread, so I apologise.

Maybe I'll think twice before airing disagreement on what I feel is a fundamentally wrong piece of advice.

Besides SEO, I've also been a programmer of VB for many many years.... I've been programming for the web for as long as IE's initial debut and I try and give all advice from a considered professional opinion based on undisputable facts.... while some disagree, most dont and there are two sides to the fence.... I sit on the future facing side and disregard expiring technologies like IE6 sooner than you would a betamax video.

I certainly did not mean to cause you offence or distribute ridicule and perhaps my initial reaction to your post was bordering on that.

I apologise to the thread starter and urge people to get back on-topic (me slaps own hands).

[Wintonian]

Thanks for your very intelligent and reasonable reply, Rob, and I will certainly try to learn more about strict standards compliance.

I will have to ask my son for some pointers. He is the same age as you, and a very competent web designer, I believe. He runs his own company and is clients are very happy with his work. They are not small companies, either, one being Promatic Ltd (makers of Clay Pigeon traps). I am sure he works hard to ensure cross-browser compliance. I am equally sure that he probably does not get it right all the time!

He is always short of time, though. If he is not working he is flying light aircraft (with me as passenger whenever possible!).

[benbramz]

i think i may also have to say sorry for the sound of my post...

the tone i used towards you is unreasonable, somtimes you get people who just give out bad advice and stick to their guns if you know what i mean.

hope theres no hard feelings