Copyright Notice

markusdavid · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:09

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody could help:

I am a web designer who built a website for a client. Some of the images on the site are the clients, others are mine. The text was written by the client, however I formatted it on the page.

My question: What would be an appropriate statement for my copyright notice at the bottom of the page?

Thanks
Mark

VanessaJW · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:25

Hi Mark

I think if the client has paid you to do this site, then the copyright belongs to the client, so you would state something like:

Copyright (client's name) 2007
Website designed by (your name/business name)

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong though!

Vanessa

1840dsgn · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:40

It depends whether your giving the client the files or whether they are essentially "loaning" the files off you.

Some designers design the site and once all the money has been paid give the files to the user to do what they like with. In which case Vanessa's format is perfect.

Others make the site and "loan" it out to the client, so they are in control of the site - only the designer can make changes to the site etc. This usually means you charge a little less.

but imagine if you went with the first option and put your name on the site, then the client let someone crap mess about with it and they made it look awful...it would have your name on it which is bad press for you. So you need to be careful.

You might just wanna put the clients name if your situation matches the first option.

mike

RZX Developer · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:46

markusdavid · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:47

Though I dont own the domain name, I retain control of the site and charge a yearly fee to do updates. However they have a username and password to to view the site 'cpanel' statistics, which, they could I guess use to access the site and change its code.

markusdavid · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:52

Im thinking, that I should just give them the copyright...

RZX Developer · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:54

By the sounds of that the site and content is all there's and they have paid you just to do the layout and put it altogether, I would have to say that the copyright is there's.

1840dsgn · Aug 17th, 2007, 14:54

Well as long as you check the site every now and then to make sure its not gone rotten then I reckon its safe to put your name on it - and I'd either use Vanessa's format or do something like

© Your name / Companys name

Discuss it with your client and ask his opinion I guess.

markusdavid · Aug 17th, 2007, 15:00

What do most designers do in this situation? (Thinking of going with the majority)

pa007 · Aug 17th, 2007, 15:04

I never hand over copyright, that's cost extra. I simply allow the client to use the work I have done for them for that specific purpose. If they, for example, wanted to use a graphic I had designed/created then they would have to seek my permission (which would incur and extra charge). The exception is logo work, they own the copyright to any logo work I do for them but this is factored in to the cost.

I am precious of things I have created, some designers less so. It's up to you, general practice in the UK (more in Graphic design rather than Web) is to hold on to the copyright unless it is asked for in which case you would charge extra.

Pete.

pa007 · Aug 17th, 2007, 15:05

If its just a layout which some extra touches I wouldn't be too bothered but for any serious graphical work I would hold onto that copyright, definitely.

Pete.

1840dsgn · Aug 17th, 2007, 15:06

Peronsally I don't have a copyright notice because it is automatically copyright whether you have a notice or not - I usually suggets the company puts something about copyright in their terms and conditions.

but I have a Website design by... bit in the footer

JustinStudios · Aug 17th, 2007, 19:30

The question comes down to whether or not you specified to the client that you retain copyright of the stuff you created. If before you started there is no legal document stating that you pertain copyrights to the work you did the client has 100% legal rights to everything and you have no rights to it.

You have to specify in a contract at the beginning of the designing process. I always put in my contracts that all copyright and ownership belongs to me until I receive final payment and there the copyrights and ownership are switched over to the client. Now if it is something like a very powerful we application I retain copyrights unless they want to buy it out from me, and that is always very expensive. So usually I retain rights to all the big things.

pa007 · Aug 17th, 2007, 19:39

The contract has to specify who the copyright belongs to. If it doesn't state who it belongs to that does not mean it belongs to the client at all, if anything it would probably fall to the creator as you have not officially passed copyright over therefore your intellectual property is still protected by law.

People always say this sort of thing and it simply isn't true. If something isn't specified in a contract, that doesn't automatically mean the client has all of the power and the designer/developer has none. You are simply both equally unprotected. You are both on shaky ground. After this it can either be decided upon between the two parties or it can go to court where the will try to find out what was verbally agreed. A verbal contract is legally just as binding as a written one, it's just harder to prove.

Contractsmake things easier, you can look back and see what has been agreed on. They solve lots of problems before they even surface but if your contract does not state who copyright belongs to this does not mean that copyright belongs to client. It could do, but that simply depends on any verbal agreements that have been made.

Pete.

Lchad · Aug 17th, 2007, 19:45

My contract states that the site is owned by the client once the account is paid in full. I feel that if they paid for me to do a job, it is fair that they own it after. I do maintain the sites so I do not have to worry about anyone mucking up the designs.

If some of the photos were taken by me and I wanted to retain rights to them, I would actually put either a copyright on the photo or under the photo and that would be excluded from their ownership.

JustinStudios · Aug 17th, 2007, 21:24

Only thing I know is they compare it to buying something at the store. When you buy the boxed product, you get the box and the product. The company doesn't keep the box even though it is their box and they made it. Although, the Logos on the box are registered to their company and therefore are the sole right to the company whose information is on that box.

In other words, if it doesn't have your name on it, it isn't yours unless specified otherwise. Unfortunately with web design when you make a client a website and its on their domain name they get all the rights hands down. I've seen it, watched it, read it, and witnessed it first hand with one of my first clients. The only way I got out of this was because in my contract I said that he had to agree to the terms and conditions on my site and that I had every right to change them and he would be given a copy to approve if he wanted to use my services. I luckily gave the guy a copy and he signed it just like the others. You have to specify or you will get screwed.

Like Pete has stated above that it isn't true, well its not 100% and it does vary on each case, but its so close to 100% that I just use it as a guideline. Yes you are both very unprotected but the paying person always has the upper hand especially when it comes to the court system. I had to go through all kinds of documents to prove ownership for my site and all the client had to do was supply a receipt for the payment and the original contract which stated nothing about my retaining copyright.

Lchad · Aug 18th, 2007, 00:18

Justin, since this topic has come up a few times in the last couple of months.. I've been curious about something. I've been meaning to ask this each time and haven't for some reason.

Why do you want ownership of the site/and or images/ graphics after the site has been paid for? Do you have a maintenance contract or is keeping the ownership of the site your way of maintaining it as well?

Since in forums we can't hear tone of voice, please note this is a question in my desire to learn and not any type of accusation or disagreement...

pa007 · Aug 18th, 2007, 00:33

I'd always like to hold copyright for artistic reasons. I created it so it's mine. I understand that the client might want copyright for practical reasons. But say you designed something really nice, it might be a symbol, a character, an icon-set or maybe a font-set. You wouldn't want them to have complete control over any of that as you may want to use it again or, and this is more important to me, you may want to develop those designs further and market them on their own merits. If you handed over copyright then everything would be gone. Logo's are different, they are virtually useless to you anyway as they apply specifically to a specific company but other things, I always try to keep hold of.

Pete.

JustinStudios · Aug 18th, 2007, 04:26

I have several reasons for it so I'll just list the reasons.

1) My LOCAL clients can't afford expensive design. The cost of living where I am is very low and the businesses can't afford to pay the price owed for the site. So I give them a "Borrowing" price so that they can borrow my site. While I do make less money for doing this I do get guaranteed maintenance work for these sites. If they decide to go somewhere else they have to buy the domain name and site from me in order to take it with them. Of course I charge the regular yearly fee for domain name of $7 a year because I don't want to cheat anyone. This buyout is included in the initial fee of clients that want ownership rights.
2) No root FTP access... Keeps people out of my cookie jar.
3) I can reuse anything I want without permission from the site owner.

There are some other perks, like for my portfolio sites it guarantees that they will still be there looking the way I want it to look in a year and can still showcase my work. That being said, most of the time I only maintain copyright based on the client's budgeting needs and its a way I can help them get something nice and not something watered down.