Ok saltedm8,
You win
would you explain to Griff how to make his page without table. Actually i also use only css, as you can see. May be is good idea to add that is better also design to be certificate with w3.org. I mean css + html. There are a couple of recommendation for cool web2.0 design. Griff if you are interested you can contact me pm and i will try to help you
Regards reader